Top5 Reasons LEGO® Builds Better Teams

Over 80% of employers and employees believe creating a sense of community at work is important. What is an innovative community-building tool that works both virtually and in person?

Brandon Wetzstein, Founder & Chief Team Builder at IN8 Create, joins Tara Thurber to share his Top5 Reasons LEGO® Builds Better Teams.

IN8 Create leverages LEGO® Serious Play® to engage participants in sharing stories about themselves in a fun and psychologically safe way.

1. Diminished Consciousness of Self
2. Inverted Persuasion
3. Equitable Expression
4. Curious Listening
5. Time Compression

Speaker Bio - Brandon is driven by a passion to reshape the way we collaborate. In a world brimming with digital tools and automation, he's convinced that our real strength lies in how well we work together. With this belief, he founded IN8 Create, aiming to unearth the hidden potential in all of us. Given the right tools, environment, and support, Brandon believes we can reach incredible heights, enriching our lives, relationships, and communities. 

Transcript

Brandon Wetzstein: 0:04

Hey everyone, welcome back to Top5 brought to you by DefinedTalent. We are a results driven service working with clients to connect them with quality talent as well as working to make an impact within the recruiting industry. We talk straight about today's professional world with real world professionals, experts in recruitment, job seekers and business owners alike. Have a question for us? Send it in and you might spur our next conversation. I'm Tara Thurber, co founder and director of talent partnerships here at DefinedTalent. And joining me today is Brandon Wetzstein, founder and chief team builder at IN8 Create. Hey, Brandon, how are you today? All right, fantastic. Happy to be here.

Tara Thurber: 0:50

Awesome. I just want to dive right in. Because I want to get to the meat and potatoes of this. But tell us a little bit about yourself and why you started IN8 Create.

Brandon Wetzstein: 1:01

Absolutely. I spent most of my career working in big corporations, Fortune 500 large companies and one of the most common challenges I found is I constantly worked with smart, intelligent, inspiring people, as individuals. And yet when we got together as groups and teams that intelligence never seem to fully come together, right? And in teams as we work together, there's so much to be had, there's so much benefit to how we collaborate, how we work together yet, I think general group dynamics sometimes makes it really hard to do that effectively and constantly was walking out of meetings going like, Well, that didn't go as well as we thought it should (laughs).

Tara Thurber: 1:44

Right! (laughs)

Brandon Wetzstein: 1:44

I know, I'm not the only one who's had that Inkling. And so I started in a create. And I named my organization IN8 Create, because I believe that we have so much more to offer so much more to offer so much more to give, whether it's ideas, insights, knowledge. And I just know with the right tools with the right methods that we can be better together. And that's what I'm hoping to do more of right help teams be better together.

Tara Thurber: 2:12

I love that so much, Brandon and it's going on a lot out there where you know, coming together as teams, and doing things together and building that culture together. You get to learn more about each other. And there's different ways that people communicate, there's different ways that people problem solve. And by coming together and learning those ways how other people are I feel that teams can even come closer together.

Brandon Wetzstein: 2:42

Absolutely. And you know, especially now when there's we're in this like just this weird space, right? We're now we've got, there's a handful of people are back in the office. And most of them are not that happy about it.

Tara Thurber: 2:54

Yep.

Brandon Wetzstein: 2:54

And we write the hybrid folks who are a little bit from home and a little bit at work, and they're still figuring out what does that flow look like? And how do we truly amplify that time together. And then we've got the fully remote workers, right?

Tara Thurber: 3:07

Yeah.

Brandon Wetzstein: 3:07

Which is super cool and convenient. But there's a trade off there. Right? And although convenience is amazing, I mean, I work remote, but I know that in person connection, right is missing them, right? Like you we don't have true eye contact. We don't have oxytocin flooding through our veins, because we haven't seen each other physically. So how do we, again, how do we utilize various tools or methods to get people to connect to get them to work better together? And and that's why I love what I do. And it is a blast and and I do it with Legos, which makes it even more fun (laughs).

Tara Thurber: 3:41

(laughs) So excited. So let me ask how do Legos have all the toys that are out there - How do Legos promote communication and collaboration among team members? And what role does this play in fostering stronger team dynamics?

Brandon Wetzstein: 3:59

Absolutely. Fantastic question. Because you would think Legos are they're just a toy, right? It's just like, What do you mean Legos? And Lego has been using tons of Team buildings over the years. In fact, I meet people constantly at conferences and tours, they tell me about their Lego team building experience. One of the things I'm using a unique methodology called Lego serious play. This is not something I made up I wish I was this mark back in the late 90s, the chairman of Lego really wanted to find a way to inject creativity and imagination into strategy. And so they created this group that built this, they built this method called Lego serious play. And if we were having this conversation 20 years ago, you wouldn't be talking to Lego. They sold this as a consulting service, they would come in and teach your company how to run these really, really unique, really amazing workshops using one of those. Now, like it's clearly been pretty successful (laughs).

Tara Thurber: 4:52

Just a little bit, I mean... (laughs).

Brandon Wetzstein: 4:54

So they don't really do consulting work anymore, at least not this methodology. So now anyone can go out get their hands on this methodology and either get certified or read books and figure out how to do it, which is what I did. I was certified in 2019. But what I've done is I've adapted this to really create short, really immersive and impactful sessions where there's a lot of insight shared in a very short period of time. And so how does this really kind of drive communication and collaboration? People are building Lego models, using metaphor and storytelling. So they're not actually building ships. They're not building planes. They're building thoughts. They're building stories. And so a question I might ask would be, build a model that tells a story about who you are outside of work. Now you can answer that in whatever the way you want, right? There's no right or wrong answer. That's one of the major keys of Lego series play, there's no right or wrong answer, whatever you build is 100%. Correct. Because I'm asking your opinion, I'm asking your story. And so this really drives communication and

Tara Thurber: 5:51

Right. Wow. collaboration, because everyone gets a chance to build a model, they all have the same kit of Legos. And then everyone gets to tell their story, right? This is what I built, this is what this means. So you're really you're hearing everyone at the table, everyone gets a voice. And the model also makes it so it compresses information a little bit. So most people can tell their story in 90 seconds or less, which is kind of amazing, because I don't think most people can't tell a story in 90 seconds. Wow (laughs).

Brandon Wetzstein: 6:21

But the model holds a lot of the communication.

Tara Thurber: 6:24

Right.

Brandon Wetzstein: 6:24

What did that other person build? So it just

Tara Thurber: 6:24

Right.

Brandon Wetzstein: 6:24

So you get a lot of information and a little creates this playful way for us to really communicate and listen bit of time, what that really means is you also get to listen to everyone, right? look at this weird little model that you built. And you look at mine, I'm curious, what did Tara build? to each other. And that really helps drive that connection. And really the collaboration because we're all listening to each other.

Tara Thurber: 6:49

Yeah, I love that. And I think communication is key. Especially when you're in a team setting. You know, I think a lot of people will go into a team setting or a meeting and everybody's off, you know, everybody has their own world, everybody has their own things that are going on. And so to be able to come together and listen and learn. You all become one, essentially, on this team as you go through this process together. Seems so awesome.

Brandon Wetzstein: 7:23

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, it's, it's amazing to see how it just, it really, completely removes our normal environment. That's what about the things that always

Tara Thurber: 7:33

Yeah. bothered me, right? doing workshops, and my previous lives, like, we always need like a facilitated methodology to get us out of that normal, like, let's all just sit in a room and talk because there's a reason that doesn't work that well, right?(laughs)

Brandon Wetzstein: 7:47

We can't do it can't worship everything.

Tara Thurber: 7:50

Right.

Brandon Wetzstein: 7:50

But there's a time where you're like, Okay, no, like, we really need to like think, you know, be thorough with our thoughts and make sure everyone gets a voice. And when we do that, that's when we walk away with a solution where you're going, yeah, yeah, this makes sense. Like we did the work. We did the hard work to come up with the solution that we needed. And that's, I think this Lego method really just makes it much easier to do that is it takes away the group dynamic stuff that generally gets in our way.

Tara Thurber: 8:14

Yeah, absolutely. So in what ways would you say using Legos in team building activities can enhance problem solving skills, also facilitate creativity and innovation within teams? In a group setting.

Brandon Wetzstein: 8:32

Yeah, absolutely. And, going back to the method itself is a couple things going on. One is, we're in a playful setting. And this is a very important delineation to make. Whereas some might kind of kind of go, Oh, it's just play, and maybe toss that aside. This is actually what you want, right? When you think about creativity and imagination and getting better ideas getting outside of your own way. Play is actually the place you want to be think about it right? When we grow up. We look at kids play as a way where we expand our minds, right? We're no ideas are bad ideas. The best brainstorms out there are built around quantity of ideas, you want volume, you don't want to judge things and push down people's ideas or thoughts. So this playful, imaginative state is where you want people to be. And when you give them a bunch of Lego bricks and say, like, go nuts, right?

Tara Thurber: 9:26

(laughs)

Brandon Wetzstein: 9:26

Have some fun with this. What also really happens is people pour their energy into that. And this is one of the things I found too, where instead in a group setting, right, especially when we're looking at ideating, trying to problem solve, we are, for good reason, we are persuasive creatures. We're trying to write show we're trying to prove our place in the group. We're doing more than just solving where there's a whole lot of ego and positioning and things going on, right?

Tara Thurber: 9:55

Right.

Brandon Wetzstein: 9:56

That get in the way or or maybe you're the introvert who doesn't speak but because you're making that confident to, you know, tell the extrovert who hasn't stopped talking to the last night we're like.

Tara Thurber: 10:04

Yep (laughs).

Brandon Wetzstein: 10:05

But then now, instead of being that persuasive person, like, how do I show up as the smart person? How do I show up as like - how do I get my idea to be the best? That energy is now really pushed into? How do we make a really creative and compelling model? And now you're starting to think about what is a great answer to this question? And so I think of some of the interesting questions I've asked in various workshops, like around communication, like, what is world class communication look like? What does that teach you? Okay, well, here you go. No, of course, no, I don't give people a half hour build with Legos, and maybe three, maybe five minutes, oh, your brain is working in a completely different way than it normally would. In fact, when we're, when we're verbally speaking, we're usually only accessing our prefrontal cortex.

Tara Thurber: 10:55

Right.

Brandon Wetzstein: 10:56

When we're working with our hands, we're actually accessing many more parts of our brain that aren't normally lit up in regular conversations. So you're actually getting more of your knowledge access, you're hitting more parts of your brain, you're lighting up more neural networks, which can spark new ideas and different thoughts. Also, you're building it out of 3D, and Lego bricks, right? It's something you can physically see. And so you can constantly play and manipulate your model again, within the time constraints given. But you get to see your idea. And that's

Tara Thurber: 11:24

Right. kind of amazing, right? And saying it's one thing and writing it down is another but something, you build this model, and then you start to get more ideas, as you build it, as you expand on it. And you can play with it, you can flip it around, you can also be a little bit less attached to it, though, which is, I think, is also important when it comes to ideas. Because a lot of times when we think of in the innovation space, like we love our ideas, there are bands, we came up with them. Yeah.

Brandon Wetzstein: 11:50

Suddenly, this thing is external to us. Now it's a little bit easier maybe to look at it, as upside of us, it's a little bit easier to share it and maybe see that it is a cool idea. But now I just saw eight other ideas around the table. And I can see how they're similar in some ways to others. So this is really where I think it comes into problem solving, innovation, creativity, it's taking just that normal way we do things that completely flipping it from externalizing it, making it 3D, allowing you to see everyone else, but also putting a little bit of time pressure on it. So you can't sit all day, right? But also play like make it fun, make it creative, go for unique.

Tara Thurber: 12:27

Right. Well, and I think that that's super interesting, too, because it, it almost breaks down some walls for individuals. And I think that that can be really huge in a team setting. Because you're all on the same playing field at that point, with the use of what's been put in front of you, and you all get to then create something out of really nothing to bring it to the table. So everybody gets to do it at the same time within the same time constraints. And it kind of blossoms, the new ideas or the camaraderie and this kind of goes into my next question in regards to how can the tactile nature of Lego construction contribute to not only this communication and creativity and innovation, but how does it contribute to the teams with building trust and camaraderie around the team members? And how does that translate to improve performance in a professional setting, too?

Brandon Wetzstein: 13:36

Yeah, great question. I think, for me, a lot of it is the information that comes out in these sessions. Again, the Lego it is super cool. But at the end of the day, right? It's a method, it's a method to get at information. And like you just said it perfectly. It breaks down walls and barriers that are normally there. And the one of the things that happens within play is a great book out there, aptly titled Play by Dr. Stuart Brown, and there's eight attributes of the play one of the key attributes is a diminished consciousness of self. When we are in a playful state, and we're playing, we don't necessarily think about ourselves in the moment, right? We're not necessarily playing. I want to say playing politics with ourselves like okay, what do I say this? How will I look? Or how will this go? And not everyone's always like that many people. You're constantly aware of how you are viewed in the setting. And I'm not saying that goes away 100%. But it's greatly reduced.

Tara Thurber: 14:34

Right.

Brandon Wetzstein: 14:34

You start to see really interesting things happen. You start to see commonalities come up. I did a session in Northern California where I think 8 out of 32 people had a hobby of growing citrus. Where did that come from?

Tara Thurber: 14:49

(laughs)

Brandon Wetzstein: 14:49

So these folks all we're gonna connect and start sharing and swapping stories, right? That's a connection that didn't exist before.

Tara Thurber: 14:56

Yeah.

Brandon Wetzstein: 14:56

Another group had all a five or six people had all adopted dogs within the past year. So you see these unique pieces of information come up. But you also see individuals who maybe aren't normally comfortable in the group dynamic situations. These are potentially more of the folks that introverted type or possibly even neurodivergent.

Tara Thurber: 15:18

Right.

Brandon Wetzstein: 15:19

Come out and build and share these stories. And you see the entire room, their jaws kind of dropped me like, I never knew that about you.

Tara Thurber: 15:25

Yeah (laughs).

Brandon Wetzstein: 15:26

This person composes symphonies on their off time, or they build video games for fun. And again, these folks are sharing usually, super deep, they're sharing information that they maybe didn't have a vehicle to share before. And this creates this connection and depth dimension. And I think especially now, especially with remote teams, that's extremely important, right, because those, that's where I think a lot of that watercooler talk or those casual conversations that have gone away, that doesn't occur. And we need to know that depth and that dimension with each other because that's what's going to happen when we need to ask for help on a project. And we feel more comfortable doing that, because Tara knows who I am as a person, not just as a co worker, when conflict arises that we need to figure out a way to work through that we're going to have empathy for each other because we understand a little bit again, about who we are as people, not just this transactional coworker, state. And I think companies know that, they understand that relationships are important. But it's hard to like you can't force people to have relationships that we're gonna do is have events like this, where you give people the opportunity to connect, to share about themselves. And then that way, familiarity grows. And so when there is opportunity to help one another, or to collaborate or to get through conflict, it becomes easier and more enjoyable. When you have those those relationships built.

Tara Thurber: 16:45

I love all of this, and my brain keeps going and going. And I think you actually posted something around empathy recently, that caught my eye because empathy is where it begins, from the top down, if you can show empathy, that's where there is room to grow, there's room to become more connected, there's room to have that camaraderie. Because everybody's hybrid or fully remote. It's not the this work life balance anymore. It's a blend. And if you don't know anything about the people that you're working with, on that personal level, how can you really connect with them on that professional level? Aand be able to work together be able to understand one another's communication style or one another's problem solving style. So by opening up the doors like this, I just find it phenomenal. And I think about play, and you're right, almost part of that ego disappears when you're playing because you're not worried about what you look like or what you're saying or how you're doing something because you're just being in the flow.

Brandon Wetzstein: 17:57

Exactly, perfectly stated. Like, it's all about that flow state and getting in. And yeah, you just you lose track of time. Right? That's the coolest part about flow and having that diminished consciousness of self, you're just fully immersed in the activity. And you don't have time to think about right, and you don't want to but either way, you're you're immersed in this activity. Yeah. And we could talk a whole nother hour about just the benefits of play in general.

Tara Thurber: 18:24

(laughs) We go up and he's more play during the day!

Brandon Wetzstein: 18:28

We do! It happens when we hit, we hit that like middle like that teenage years, where suddenly we're trying to distance ourselves from that child, us and we're trying to become adult us. And we throw play on the pile and many people don't pick it back up again. And we do what it's not always enjoyable. But we grow, we learn, we connect, we were able to do so many amazing things when we play, it's just it's almost like a superfood of activities that people have.

Tara Thurber: 18:59

I love it. I love it. And for the stuff that you're doing the sessions that you do, you can do them in person and remote for different teams. Right?

Brandon Wetzstein: 19:08

Yeah, absolutely. And I'll always be the first person to say in person is always the best.

Tara Thurber: 19:12

Right.

Brandon Wetzstein: 19:13

But when you're not able to do that. Yes, remote absolutely works. Because we have this powerful medium now where we can have video and hold up models and ship out Lego kits. Because again, it comes back to the stories, right?

Tara Thurber: 19:26

Right.

Brandon Wetzstein: 19:26

It's all the stories that are told, it's about the opinions. It's about the thoughts and the knowledge

Tara Thurber: 19:28

It's like the feel good vibrations can come out that are shared. And that absolutely comes through virtually, without a doubt. when you play whether it's virtual or in person still.

Brandon Wetzstein: 19:42

Yeah, exactly.

Tara Thurber: 19:43

I love it. Brandon. I love everything about this. And I have to ask, since Legos remind us of our childhood, can you share your first or an important childhood memory you have?

Brandon Wetzstein: 19:57

Yeah, yeah, you know, so um, one pops mine. That is just I don't know why it's so salient. But I remember playing with a neighbor friend who lived across the street. And I remember playing it, they had a tree. And it was one of those trees that had like a perfect, large branch that was just big enough to crawl up on and sit on, you know, I think we're probably somewhere in that, like, five, six range, right?

Tara Thurber: 20:23

Yeah.

Brandon Wetzstein: 20:23

Somewhere around that age. And I remember playing drive thru, and drive thru, it was just like, no, we were just pretending like we worked at McDonald's or the bank, right? This was dating myself here, this is in the 80s, where like, everything was like drive throughs were the coolest thing you can just stay in your car!

Tara Thurber: 20:41

(laughs)

Brandon Wetzstein: 20:41

So as kids, we were playing drive thru. And I think one of the reasons this is a salient one is I just really remember sitting on the edge of that branch taking orders out of a window, for some reason.

Tara Thurber: 20:51

(laughs)

Brandon Wetzstein: 20:52

But then to think about what that means as someone who like has been studying play more and more, it's such an amazing picture, like you were part of your play was trying on a job (laughs) because that's one of the things kids do with play and adults do is we can try things about experimentation. Because failure is sacred play, right? You just do it, and you have fun with it.

Tara Thurber: 21:12

Yep. And maybe I don't know, right? Maybe you don't have an angry customer or a bad boss, when you're playing in that scenario.

Brandon Wetzstein: 21:21

llows you to try things and experiment. And A

Tara Thurber: 21:21

(laughs) that's that was the first memory that popped in my head. You're like, yeah, I never did end up working in a drive thru that didn't happen yet. I don't know. I guess it's probably maybe in retirement. But yeah, it was just a really fun memory. I love it. I love everything about this. And, you know, I have to say, we are a big Lego family. And the amount of play that takes place around Legos is just phenomenal from an adult standpoint, all the way down to my youngest that's seven and a half years old. I mean, we'll spend hours and hours and it's not just the playing with Legos, but I liked what you just said about failure too, you know, failure doesn't really exist in playing. And if it does, it's not frowned upon. It's just, you just move through it. And I love how that comes through with just having this conversation too, that I need more play in my life and on a daily to realize that when there's successes and failures, it's not what stands out. It's more how do you get through it? And how do you flow through it?

Brandon Wetzstein: 22:33

Yeah, no, I still think one of my greatest joys of doing these events. And coming up on five years now of doing doing this.

Tara Thurber: 22:43

It's so cool.

Brandon Wetzstein: 22:44

Just to see people turn into kids again.

Tara Thurber: 22:47

Yeah! (laughs)

Brandon Wetzstein: 22:47

You see it. You see it on their face. I just did a session with a bunch of professionals in partnership with with SHRM, and we were talking about work, right. It was engagement and retention. Employee experience. But we did it with

Tara Thurber: 23:00

Yep. Legos. And people were just like, it's been years since I've played with LEGO the smile on their face when they crack them open. And it's not their kids Legos that they have to put away like. Right! (laughs)

Brandon Wetzstein: 23:10

At least for right now. These are mine, and I get to play with them. And I'm going to build stuff.

Tara Thurber: 23:14

Yeah.

Brandon Wetzstein: 23:14

You just you see a different level of person that you just don't always get to see. And it's really refreshing and invigorating.

Tara Thurber: 23:23

I love it so much. So let's share with the audience. What are your Top5 Reasons Legos can Help Build Better Teams?

Brandon Wetzstein: 23:33

Yes, so some of these will be I think I've covered many of these in our talk already. But I think number one, diminished consciousness of self. It gets you out of your brain watching you thinking about how you is being looked at a judged and just jump in and go. It's just so much more enjoyable. Number two, I'm gonna say this, I'm gonna call it

Tara Thurber: 24:26

Yes.

Brandon Wetzstein: 24:27

Again, nothing massive right within 90 seconds, but everyone shares and that's extremely important because more often than not, we actually don't disagree that inverted persuasion, right? Let's stop trying to sell our much. If you ask a team what good communication looks like and you get an answer from 10 people there's going to be ideas and shift the energy towards how do I describe it nuances important to understand that no one's but there's nothing very likely to come up that someone will be like No, I disagree with that. Oh, you're all fine. Like I kind of agree. better? How do I make it better? So it's really taking that But everyone gets to share. Number four curious listening. This one I still find it amazing because when you don't know what someone's going to build, or what they're going to share, you actually really aren't curious persuasive element in normal conversations and shifting it when you when there's a little weird looking LEGO model. And they did something odd with the flag or a figure. Instead of listening. And I think all too often again, right, we're listening with a lot of times we were, people towards creativity. And how do I make this unique thing come to will wait their turn to talk, right? They're not necessarily there, they're pre loading the next thing or they're thinking about how they're going to respond to the next question. life? So other people understand it? Number three, equitable They're not present. But again, you know that you're going to share your model and your story. And I'm going to listen and be curious about what everyone else shares as well. And then last, but not least, it's the time compression, the magical part expression. This is everyone builds, everyone shares. There's where somehow a ton of information is shared a very short period of time, 90 seconds to share model 30 to 90 seconds, like the amount of insight shared in such a short period of no sitting out in the corner the extroverts got to bring it down time. And that's because of all those things I just listed, right? Because we're not worried about ourselves actually listening. Or, you know, we're not trying to persuade, we're just sharing our point of view. And then when we a notch the introverts that get to kick it up a notch. get to the end, we go, Oh, we're all actually not that far apart. Here's the 8 or 9 or 10 things we all agree upon. Cool, let's go. So it's just it's it's just magic, at least in my view, without a doubt.

Tara Thurber: 26:08

I love it, Brandon. It's so awesome. And it just seems like it's extreme, playful engagement to create a professional camaraderie between everybody and I just, I love what you're doing. I love learning more. And the fact that it's all wrapped around Legos just makes it even so much more cooler.

Brandon Wetzstein: 26:28

Awesome. Thank you so much, Tara. Thank you for having me on today. This has been fantastic.

Tara Thurber: 26:33

Absolutely. Brandon, thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to meet with us. And again, we will share all of your information. For those of you out there that want to play with some Legos and get some team building going. Brandon again, thank you so much.

Brandon Wetzstein: 26:50

Thank you so much there

Tara Thurber: 26:53

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